Thursday, February 15, 2007



An Apology?

Our Anglo-American friend over at The Fifth Estate has labeled me as one "who argues like Plato." While I accept the tag as a compliment, I do wish to correct the error of perception.

Much of Plato's design was to use Socrates and his Method in various analogies as a way of castigating the Athenian Democracy for their condemnation of Socrates for the crime of "corrupting the youth of Athens." This comes out very clearly in The Republic, where we see Plato advocating (it would seem) the creation of a very undemocratic City. Much academic work has been concluded on the matter, and it seems clear that Plato's rancour towards the demos is based largely on the anger he felt toward them for the way they treated Socrates.

I accept this interpretation, but I also very much enjoy reading and re-reading The Republic, as I find it a continuing source of wonder through the very power of the emotion that underscores the entire dialectic. I also see the value Plato places on the existence of an educated elite - although I might disagree with him that this elite should always rule as Philosopher-Kings.

But, back to the point; I refer to myself as a Platonist because I accept to a varying degree the idea of virtue, the forms, and intellectual rigour. In reality however, I am actually a devotee of Socrates and his Method (propagated largely, but not entirely, by Plato).

If we examine how Socrates lived his life, we see this:

He went around pissing people off.

Always questioning, hectoring, lecturing, teasing, and puncturing the conventional and unconventional (il)logic of the day. It eventually lead to his demise at the hands of the very people he was trying to enlighten.

Given the customs and practices of the times, Socrates could have fled Athens after the Verdict condemning him. He chose to stay and face his accusers and the jury. During his whole lifetime, Socrates could have left Athens and sought refuge in another City-State.

Why did he stay then? Well, the answer is clear to me. For all of its faults, Athens was the one City-State with a rough commitment to liberty - as it was then conceived. He certainly would have been put to death very early in the game, had he chosen to live in, say, Sparta.

Socrates chose to live and die in Athens. That in no way mitigates his desire to make Athens a better place. That in no way dilutes his desire to educate the Athenian youth. That in no way tempers his impatience with rhetoric and sophistry.

By accepting his fate at the hands of the demos, Socrates at one and the same time condemns their stupidity and laziness and exalts the ideals and hope that is Athens. In the end, Athens stands as the last, best hope for mankind. That the last, best of hope of mankind condemns the greatest Athenian of them all, is an irony lost on the demos, but not to those who know and remember Socrates great maxim:

"The unexamined life is not worth living."

And it is in that spirit that that I choose to live my life.

It is because of this fundamental commitment that I have come to reject cant, hypocrisy, and political parties. It helps me reject the bullshit and blather of both the Left and the Right. It assists me in seeing that Big Business and Big Labour are both part of the problem. It has afforded me the freedom to condemn ideology - the falsest of all gods.

And for all this, I wander around the blogosphere pissing people off.

Except, I would rather term it "making them think."

Or - come to think. Or - open their eyes. Or - realise.

Some get it. Most don't. Kind of like ancient Athens, don't you think?

Now you know. Or do you?

9 Comments:

At 7:56 pm , Blogger 5th Estate said...

Aeneas..
"argues like Plato" was indeed meant as a compliment.

I was about 12 when I first read "The Republic" (recommended to me by my father). What intially impressed was how Plato carefully built his case and managed his critics whilst never calling them "fucktards" or some such.

The recipes were fascinating too.

But in revisiting his work as I got a little older and more sophisticated I realized he was really rather smug,manipulative and naive--being the smartest man in the room he assumed that he must be right about everything, and also held that once he had establishee a point that strengthened his thesis it became immutable.
Though he allowed for some meritocracy in his vision he still assumed a "natural order" atop which he sat and slightly below him the limited but powerful and priviliged group he'd persuaded to his view.
Altogether "The Republic" strikes me as being a well-argued thesis based on a good deal of wishful thinking.
It contains some fine concepts but as a whole it is in total rather incoherent.
Though today we have the advantage of a far greater and often more precise knowledge-base than Plato had to work with, I think quite a few of his arguments back then would have been more severely challenged by the rank and file of the time, had he asked them.

"By accepting his fate at the hands of the demos, Socrates at one and the same time condemns their stupidity and laziness and exalts the ideals and hope that is Athens"

To my great embarrasment I haven't actually read Socrates, probably becuase I assumed that Plato (being Socrates student)naturally improved on Socrates teachings.
But this seems not to be the case--Plato apparently used the "Socratic method" as a tool, not a principle--Plato learned to argue his own position at the expense of others opinions.

I think you summed it up well in saying "By accepting his fate at the hands of the demos, Socrates at one and the same time condemns their stupidity and laziness and exalts the ideals and hope that is Athens"

I think it's about time I read Socrates.

In the meantime, there's always Monty Pythons "Argument Clinic" to serve as a "Cliff's Notes" until I get stuck-in.

 
At 5:32 am , Blogger Aeneas the Younger said...

5E:

The thing I most take away is the Socratic method. All Socrates really does is ask questions and reduce/deduce away.

It is an effective way to expose illogic and rhetoric.

To a large degree, I am an very English (in more than lineage) in that I have come to eschew ideology in favour of practicality and moderation. I really see the emergence of ideology since 1776 as one of the great calamities of the modern age. That mere ideas, in the absence of empirical proof, come to be seen as "truths" seems to me a very dangerous construct.

On a related note, I am trying to stay out of the gutter these days, but when one observes the fools and charlatans out here some days it hard to sit still.

 
At 12:00 pm , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the Gadfly of Athens reserved his "attention" for fools and charlatans... those who thought they "knew" something and waxed loquacious. He left the more laconic and less-influential orators in relative peace.

I don't belive Socrates left any actual writings behind.... most of what we know of Socrates comes through the writings of Plato and Xenophon.

As for the "Republic", that described a "fevered" state, one from which one could discover the "origins" of injustice, both in a body politic, and an "individual".

I didn't realize you had started posting again, aeneas. It's good to see. Would you mind if I visited occassionally?

 
At 6:38 am , Blogger Aeneas the Younger said...

FJ:

You're Welcome any time ....

Yes, Socarates left behind very little himself, but standard interpretation indicates that Plato is not speaking for Socrates fully and completely. Plato uses Socrates and his Method for some of his own designs.

Plato does not worry about those governed by appetites, other than to make sure they are usefully engaged and not exercising power.

 
At 6:46 pm , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plato may not have spoken for Socrates fully and completely, but I doubt he deviated too far. When Plato did delkiberately wish to deviate from Socrates' teachings, he usually adopted the "Stranger" ("Statesman") or "Athenian Stranger" ("The Laws") personae and "corrected" Socrates/Young Socrates. It's also useful to directly compare Xenophon's Socrates to Plato's. Xenophon's Apology, Symposium, and Memorabilia contain dialogues remarkably similiar to some of Plato's (Xenophon was also a student of Socrates and Plato's contemporary ). Xenophon went on to present his own views on "government" in his Cyropedia... but of course, Xenophon was a bit more "old school" than Plato. Xenophon was a warrior (Anabasis).

 
At 6:56 pm , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, bad link Memorabilia.

 
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